Calorie counting or otherwise artificially reducing your food intake is a waste of time and life


#82

More power to you if you’re helping men to find ways to lose weight.


#83

Ok, my turn to butt in.

The most popular method (and the one I use) is calorie counting. It works because no matter what you need a calorie deficit to lose weight - that’s an unarguable fact. If I ate 3000 calories of vegetables and sat in bed all day and did that for days, weeks, months then I would gain weight as it’s too much energy for my body to use. Just the same as if I ate McDonalds but kept the calories to under 2000 I would feel like shit (because lack of nutrients) but I would lose weight. McDonalds Diet Guy lost 60lbs in 6 months by eating only McDonalds but controlling his calorific intake to 2000 per day.

Whilst on my calorie counting diet I have barely ever felt hungry as I have chosen better quality foods that provide nutrients and fibre so I feel full, I have also allowed myself to eat whatever I want as long as I don’t go over my calorie quota. Even on cheat days I have been mentally concious of what I eat and the most I have had on a cheat day was 2,600 calories.

Now, the body works in such a way that we generally only feel hungry about 15-20 minutes after we stop eating, therefore if we choose to not control what portions we eat (calorie counting) then we may continue to eat more than we require, which is what many of us were doing for years and is why we are members of MvF. The actual size and volume of the stomach is around the size of your fist, but it can expand greatly. This is why a lot of people who start a diet feel very hungry at the beginning and then give up quickly thinking they can’t continue and “suffer” actually after a few days to a week of reduced amounts the stomach will shrink back to it’s original size, then you will start to feel full sooner (just as a gastric band works). Again, when I started my diet I felt really unwell and had headaches for two days (I’m doing a 16/8 - 18/6 diet), but after this initiation period I don’t usually feel hungry at the times when I used to, especially in the evenings and have conditioned myself to not eat after 7pm (unless a family gathering/party/etc).

If you start a diet without having some idea of what you eat, how are you supposed to cut down or improve what you eat. Calorie counting does that, it’s like an athelete training for their event but not recording their speed/time/distance, they will never know if they are improving. We need to see stats to know where we are and where we are going. Be this calorie counting or a simplified version such as a points system like weigh watchers.

After 6 weeks using MyFitnessPal I stopped using it, simply because I now know what is enough calories and tend to eat similar food day in day out. This is mindful eating, I know what I can eat and am aware of what goes in my mouth.

Finally, you can’t tell everybody that their method that they have been using successfully for a period of time is wrong and doesn’t work. It’s factually incorrect because we are living proof that it does work, as I mentioned at the start I’m down 20lbs since November 25th - that’s right inline with the doctors recommended weekly loss. It’s also quite rude and conceited. This forum is all about being able to share ones opinions in an open way, but let’s not be telling everybody that they are doing something that is working they are wrong. I have skimmed over a lot of the replies to this post but I don’t think anybody has directly told you that your method is wrong (correct me please) and that is because we respect your method and choice, if it is working for you then well done and if others are stuggling with their method then perhaps they should try your way to see if that works better for them.

Also, as I didn’t read all replies - what are your actual results. How much have you lost and how long have you been doing your method?

Lastly, here’s my stats:


#84

You might want to go back and check - I’ve never said that calorie control can’t work to reduce your weight. It can and does. I’ve said that it doesn’t work as a long term solution. It’s a band aid, one you can wear your entire life, and feel miserable about wearing a band aid all your life, but it’s still a band aid, not a solution, so it doesn’t work.

Your body is quite capable of turning anythign you eat into anything it needs, speedily and quickly. There are some essentials that need to be eaten in your diet, I get those from a multivitamin to ensure I’m topping anythign up I need to.


#85

I don’t think you understand that the majority of times you eat, you don’t do it because you are really hungry.


#86

Why did you do that?

Why do you think it was lack of a balanced diet? It sounds more likely to be pscological given what you have said so far?

It can act as a sticking plaster yes, it can help you lose weight yes but isn;t a long term sustainable way of eating.

By learning to concentrate and listen.

[quote=“Jaxom, post:80, topic:5708”] You have to put the three things together - mindfulness, understanding your food, knowing how big a healthy portion should be.\
[/quote]

This doesn’t need to cover calorie counting

[quote=“Jaxom, post:80, topic:5708”] Calorie counting in deeply imbedded in this.
[/quote]

It doesn’t need to be

[quote=“Jaxom, post:80, topic:5708”]Eventually you can look at a slice of bread and know with out weighing, if it’s 80 calories or 150 calories. This leads to reeducation and weight loss
[/quote]

Indeed it can. It would be nicer if you could just eat without making the mental computation though.


#87

I never argued it.

The very existence of cheat days means you’re running your life to arbitrary rules and systems.

Truths and mistakes mixed in there.
1 - eating mindfully is a slow process where you use all of your senses to consume your food. It’s also much slower. You don’t need 15-20minutes to realise you are full.
2- Your stomach can expand greatly but it goes back into shape when it’s empty, fat people don;t stretch it out of all proportion for weeks.
3 - Those people you say feel really hungry, they aren’t;t. They aren just habitualised into eating at certain times of day and from certain stimulus.

By learning to concentrate and to listen to your own body you will know what to eat. No fat animals in the wild. You’re an animal.

Your athlete analogy is false, their goal is time, ours is weight. I do weigh myself.

That is categorically NOT mindful eating. That’s not the definition, that’s not what it means. Please read up for the definition.

I don’'t know how many times I have to bang on about this rather obvious point - I never said calorie counting couldn’t lose you weight, I aid it was a band aid you would have to wear for the rest of your life, depriving your self of fun and cakes until you die, with a fat list of how many things you ate.

I couldn’t care less if you think I’m wrong or not, because I know why this is working and I know that men just love to huddle round the gang discussing kit, methods, articles, gossip about just about bloody anythign rather than confront the real issues behind why they are here. I am that man, I’ve pretended far too much stuff isn;t the way it is and run my life on autopilot.

Now I’m running it consciously the. With choice, in control, not deprived.

Mindfulness almost a year, mindful eating speculatively from mid November, in earnest 4 weeks. It’s the understanding of the root of the method that means I know it’s already worked.

If you have skipped a lot of replies I suggest you have a look, there’s lots of misunderstandings in there.


#88

I notice there’s only one person here who keeps using the phrase ‘your entire life’ with regards calorie tracking, and it isn’t one of the people who uses this technique…


#89

I think it’s best if you either give this a go for thirty days or stop commenting.


#90

I think it’s best that you remember that a) im free to comment here where I like, as long as I remain civil and that b) you’re the one preaching open-mindedness, yet stubbornly refusing to exercise this yourself. Maybe you could apply mindfulness?


#91

I think you need to do some research as what you have stated overly simplifies the relationship between protein, fat and carbs. While the body adjusts, it is not optimum if one has a specific goal (build muscle, lose weight, train for an endurance event etc.) Here is an article that might help.


#92

So you’re not brave enough to try it?

This isn’t a public forum, I’m looking for useful debate and you’re not supplying it. I’ve politely asked you to go away if you aren’t going to be useful. This is a polite line drawn under any communications with you.


#93

But it can and does do it. So unless you’re an athlete, it doesn’t matter.


#94

So are we setting up a group now? Seems we have enough members to try it out…


#95

It can use proteins for energy however not very efficiently. However, fats can not be converted to proteins. And yes it does matter if one is trying to lose percentage of body fat or do fitness related activities. From the linked article:

Protein provides four calories per gram. The human body can do three things with protein calories; put protein in fat stores, use it as an energy source or use it to carry out functions vital to life. Protein calories will be used as an energy source when the body is lacking fat or carbohydrate calories for fuel. When the body receives sufficient quantities of proteins, fats and carbohydrates, protein will carry out its specific functions. These proteins functions include: replacement of old cells, building muscles, organs, blood, nails, hair, skin, and tissues. Protein also takes part in hormone, antibodies, and enzyme formation.

Fasting your body without proper protein intake will cause your body to slowly start shutting down. You must not only eat enough protein, but you must eat the right types. Without the right amount of essential proteins, no matter how much you eat, your body will waste the protein and not run properly.

So, just eating willy nilly whenever one wants “listening to the body”, and whatever one wants is not going to be that healthy or mindful for that matter. That is how most of people get fat.

Now, my struggle right now actually is to eat enough calories. My body is satisfied after 1,000 - 1,200 calories a day and I have to make an effort (eat 5-6 times a day) to get close to 1,600 that I need. It is a struggle because I do not have chips, burgers, bread, pasta etc. as part of my diet. I could go to the local burger place and eat a 950 calorie burger for lunch as part of “mindful eating” and hope my body converts all the fats in that burger to nutrients I need ( 204gr protein, 54gr fat, 72gr carbs) as part of my weight training :wink: . I don’t think it will work.

Finally, I don’t think a scientific and sensible diet is just for athletes.


#96

If people wish to be part of your group then as we said, we will set up a private group.
However I will not be a part of it. I’m out.
I opened up to the fact that I had an abusive childhood, mentioning that I was malnourished and put into foster care where food was yet again used as a tool for punishment.
I stated that I have an unhealthy relationship with food, which I am working on.

I feel the tone of your replies is both dismissive and aggressive. I feel that you could do me more mental damage if I was a part of your group. I’m here to heal not be brow beaten. Sorry but that’s my personal thoughts.


#97

While I want to know more it will be through self research after I hit my target weight. When I’m doing as well as I am through calorie counting I’m not risking losing my rhythm. I’m already finding less reliance on daily monitoring as I have a real awareness about what I’m eating.


#98

I haven’t commented on this thread as I don’t think I can add anything that hasn’t been already said, but I had to respond to this comment. Knowing what @ilpirata has experienced and his attitude to it makes him one of the bravest people I know. @ilpirata don’t forget the 2017 Southdowns Way offer is still there :wink:


#99

I’m in, subject to reading the books first. Any whiff of cultish quackery or touchy-feely-ness and I’m out of there. However, I’m actually into this because I don’t want to count calories (not that I do now). I want to be one of those people who, when faced with a plate of pies doesn’t inhale the lot.

FWIW, I agree with much of what you say. I also think a few have misunderstood your message, although your delivery of said message leaves a great deal to be desired; you could have achieved your ambition of a group without alienating the calorie-counters.

No-one likes a smart arse.


#100

But I am a smart arse.

Anyway, it was an experiment that didn’t go quite as planned, entirely unintentional :wink:

Oh and I’m on video as part of an anti homeopathy protest group outside Brighton - no Quackery for me I promise .


#101

Now that I could get on board with. :slight_smile: